This week Hywel is joined by the brilliant Nick Rogers, VP of Engineering at Wagestream, for a fast-paced debate-style episode! Hywel plays devils advocate and challenges Nick on his ideas about what’s wrong with the software engineering industry, in order for the two leaders to really tease out the answers to common and pertinent industry questions. Nick and Hywel talk software engineering as a team sport, the rarity of startups turning a profit, having a healthy skepticism towards hype and a lot more.