In this episode, Alain Wegmann interviews Lucien Etzlinger, Senior Consultant of customer-relationship management, with whom he collaborated for over ten years on developing the SEAM method. In this episode, Lucien explains how he discovered, during his career in the world of finance, the importance of relationship management. He describes how the SEAM patterns, called CASA (for curiosity, appreciation, service, and action), help him in his consulting practice. He also talks about the concept of living beings and the importance of the concept for understanding the challenges in promoting changes in companies.